Wherever you're watching, welcome to
Talking Business. Now, when this year's
crop of university levers think back to
when they started their degrees, they
couldn't have dreamt of some of the
changes that had impact the jobs market
they'd graduate into. In less than the
time of a three-year college course,
we've seen the launch of Chat GPT.
Predictions from the investment bank
Goldman Sachs that AI would replace 300
million full-time jobs. And just in the
last few weeks, Goldman's revealed new
research that young tech workers are
losing out to machines more quickly than
anyone else. It's a trend they've also
noticed that the world's biggest
professional network, LinkedIn.
>> In the last year, hiring rates for entry
level work uh by new grads has slowed by
over 20%. And that's the case for both
the US and the UK. There is uncertainty
around trade policy and tariffs, but
there are other things that are also
making them uncertain. The interest rate
environment is changing. The other
factor that I think is really important
is just what does AI mean for the labor
force. So imagine if you will that
suddenly companies are looking at this
potential productivity tool and
wondering exactly how much they can rely
on it to do uh simple tasks, maybe even
more complex tasks. and they're figuring
it out.
>> Another shift that some have noticed is
the drop off in job adverts that require
an expensive college degree. Last year
on the job site, Indeed, a majority of
new roles didn't require any formal
education qualifications at all. The
number of jobs that specified candidates
needed a degree fell by 3%. And that
fall came in more than eight out of 10
occupations.
As both an economist and a mom about to
send her own child off to college, I
think it's fair to say that the
advantages to college are still there.
You still see that people who go to
college um over the lifetime of their
career typically earn more, but
increasingly there is a lot to offer um
if kids take a route of not going to
college. So there's a huge demand that
we see um actually globally now for
people who have what we call trades
experience. So whether you're an
electrician, a welder, a plumber, a
machine tooler, there's huge demand for
skilled labor in that set which doesn't
necessarily require a college degree.
>> So what does LinkedIn's data suggest
graduates should do? If I were to give
advice right now to someone who's
graduating into this economy which is
laden with uncertainty but also has a
lot of potential to be really exciting
and transformative
um I would say don't get too attached to
any particular career outcome or
industry. I would encourage people to
feel much more flexible about acquiring
skills and experiences. One of the most
interesting trends that we see in our
data is the really rapid rise of people
starting their own business. We've seen
a 60% increase in people starting their
own business in the last year
and a three-fold increase overall in the
last 5 years.
>> My next guests are dealing with this in
the real world. Oliver Dalabani is a
22-year-old from Miami. Since graduating
in May, he sent out more than 200 job
applications. Now he's teamed up with a
friend to launch his own business. Our
other guest, Simon Squib, started his
own business when he was just 15 years
old. He was also homeless at the time.
He later sold that business to PWC
before starting and investing in many
other firms and growing a social media
following of millions. He joins me now
on the go to his next meeting. Welcome
to you both to talking business. Oliver,
Simon, good to have you both on the
program. And Oliver, let me start with
you. It's been a pretty tough year for
you. I described some of it there in the
introduction. Just talk to me about the
reality of the jobs market as you found
it this year.
>> I've been applying to hundreds and
hundreds of jobs. um reaching out to
friends and family, using every
connection that I can, and using every
creative way of reaching to these
recruiters at these companies, and I
rarely rarely hear back. Um sometimes I
feel like maybe it's just me, maybe it's
something I'm doing, but I I speak to
friends from my school, from other
schools, and they have the same issue,
and their friends, they tell me, have
the exact same issue. Simon, this is a
familiar tale and it's one that's
increasing um as the number of graduates
entering that job market find that the
jobs they wanted don't exist. I mean,
you talk to loads of young people about
this, don't you?
>> I've been talking about this problem for
years and I've said to people many times
over in the last three years, don't wait
for someone to give you a job, create
one for yourself. The universities have
always pitched this promise that go to
university, you'll get a job. And it's
not true. It hasn't been for a long
time. And of course with the ra rise of
AI, not only does it mean there's even
less jobs, it also means it's a very
exciting time to start a business. It's
really easy, easier than ever to start a
business.
>> So Oliver, tell me about your business.
What are you doing? How are you making
it work? And I suppose, are you glad you
did it this way?
>> Honestly, yeah, I'm I'm very glad I did
it this way. Um, so basically a little
bit about our brand. It's a natural
skincare brand um called Ancient
Standard. It's based on the idea that
the ingredients we use now and and the
kind of the way we take care of our skin
now uh we've deviated so far from how
people for the past you know thousands
of years have taken care of their own
skin. And so we kind of want to bring
that idea back um into today's world
using all natural ingredients um all
natural oils and
kind of just bringing that idea and that
knowledge um back to today's uh world.
>> And in terms of how you got this
business off the ground, talk to me
about the journey. A lot of it we did
our own like the product packaging, the
the formula, the you know the the
consistency of what we wanted. Um so I'd
say a lot of it is just getting step by
step. I think for a lot of people they
see the big picture and it kind of
scares them a little bit or maybe it
just seems unattainable. But I think if
you think about what the next step would
be, which is how we kind of approached
building the brand, thinking about what
I can do tomorrow or one more thing I
could add for the brand um or to get
started on building the brand. I think
if you think step by step, it makes it a
lot easier and a lot more attainable to
build a business that way. And and
that's what we've been doing in my
experience, me and my partner. And it's
I mean, you know, it's it's real. We we
have it now. It's a physical thing.
>> Yeah, it exists. It's up and running.
And Simon, that's sort of the problem,
isn't it? People maybe fear too many
steps ahead. Rather than taking that
first step, that little step, whatever
it is, they worry about the end goal
before they've even got started, don't
they?
>> I I think yeah, the key to starting a
business is I think not wanting to start
a business, but needing to start a
business. And so, a lot of people, one
of the problems they have is they have
they have actually too many options.
That's definitely one of the problems,
but the other problem is they don't see
it as like one step at a time. So get
one customer who will pay you. Just have
proof of concept. And it's much easier
than you think to get that. If you pitch
an idea to someone, they can say yes to
being your client. And that's what you
need. You just need one client most of
the time. And if you do that, you almost
get a sense of belief, a realization
that your idea can come to life. But you
have to take risk in life. I mean,
otherwise, you know, if you don't take
risk, you don't get luck. And without
luck, you you won't succeed. And so you
need a bit of bad luck sometimes where
you can't get the job because then your
bad luck will lead to good luck because
you'll have to start something on your
own. Then you have to ask someone to be
your customer to get the good luck that
they say yes. And so it's really just a
process. And I think a lot of people in
the world today are are thinking it's
hard to start a business and they think
it's easier to get a job. But the
reality is today it's the opposite. You
know when you work for yourself it's
hard at the beginning but gets easier
over time and it's only hard because
you're learning things. Whereas when
you're working for someone else, it's
easy at the beginning but gets harder
over time as your bosses change, as the
market changes, people could just fire
you at any second. I think this is this
is entrepreneurship's time and it's a
time for people to create their own
jobs.
>> The word risk is really important there
because maybe working for someone else,
what you're doing is outsourcing the
risk. The risk that it might all be a
failure, the risk that there might be a
lot of cost. The risk that you may not
get any customers,
>> but you're not you're not really
outsourcing the risk. You're you're
you're you're basically taking the
choice out of your hands and giving it
to your boss or to his boss's boss to
work for someone else. If you think
working for yourself is more risky than
working for yourself than working for
someone else, then you are you are you
are deluding yourself in this day and
age. Someone today is employing AI into
their company and they're going to cut
thousands of workers today and that
could be you. So you don't have control
and you could spend five t years working
at a company and because you haven't got
any equity in the brand that you're
working on, you have no safety net.
>> Um Oliver Simon's talking about sort of
belief but also just that this is well
we should consider you know going it
alone being the least risky option. Is
that how you saw it when you were
starting the business this year? Um, you
know, I I did have that realization um
the other day actually that I think a
lot of people enjoy, you know, working
for other companies or working for
someone else because they don't
necessarily have to feel that risk or
feel um, you know, if something were to
go wrong, it's it's not necessarily on
them always. Um, and so I realized that
a lot of people uh pick up jobs for that
feeling um of of having to have any kind
of risk off their shoulders. And I I I
do agree with what Simon's saying. Um,
it it does feel a little bit risky, but
my mindset with this whole thing was
that I I'm okay if this thing fails as
long as I know I took it as far as I
could because then I would have, you
know, no doubt in myself. Um, and I
guess that's just another explanation
for belief.
>> Simon, what advice would you have for
Oliver right now? You know, setting up
his own firm this year. How does he see
this through? How do you stay the
course?
>> I um I think the way he's doing it is
quite right. He he basically is is
building something he enjoys. I think
the word fun is not said enough in
business. You've got to enjoy it. I I I
believe a purpose matters in this day
and age. If I look at young people
today, a lot of people say young people
are lazy. That's not true. Young people
today, what I've noticed is they want a
purpose. They want a reason to do the
business beyond just making money. They
want to make money, but they want to fix
the world's problems. So, I think having
a purpose that solves a problem for
people, which again, I I think, you
know, that that to me is what keeps me
going. I want to fix the education
system. I want to make sure that people
know what they're capable of. You know,
opportunity is is not evenly
distributed, but talent is. And I want
to change it so that opportunity is
equally distributed. And that motivates
me. and that motivates my team.
>> Looking back, Oliver, would you pursue
the same route again? And and by that I
mean sort of the college education and
then seeking a graduate job. You know,
we said at the start of this that fewer
and fewer job ads now are requiring sort
of formal educational qualifications.
They're looking at life experience.
Would you do it again? And the cost that
goes with college, do you think that was
worth it? There were some things that I
gained from college that were priceless,
you know, like my my friends or the
professors, you know, that I got to meet
and that got to help me through college.
But I think the price that I paid for
what for what I had learned, I don't
think I had to pay. I think a lot of
this information now is available and
it's very organized and there's you know
a lot of a lot of these corporations put
out classes or they create you know 10
week 20we classes that you can learn a
lot of the technical skills. Um I think
you know I'll credit college that it it
definitely gave me a way of thinking but
then again like I don't think I needed
to pay that much to have that that that
way of thought. I think that would have
also come naturally through life
experience or through you know starting
my own business. We sometimes have
something called survival bias, right?
So yeah, when people go to university
and then they describe the experience of
university, it's like anything. You will
always get something from doing
something, but it doesn't mean it's
worth. I mean, in England, for example,
people are getting in 50 $60,000 worth
of debt. It's not worth it. It's not
worth it. We need to make sure this gets
through to people because the machine
that is a business that is university is
selling that you can get a job when you
come out the other end which we know now
is not true and then they also sell this
friend network as if somehow the network
would never be achieved if you didn't go
to university and it's not true I
started a business at 15 years old I met
people I made a network through building
businesses other entrepreneurs clients
brands I have built a network by living
life.
>> But all of this is about confidence and
having a bit of cash to put on the line,
is it? The confidence that you've got a
great idea and then the money to back it
up. We all need that, don't we, to start
a business.
>> You do not need money to start a
business. This what you need is
financial literacy. Th this whole thing
about needing money to start a business
is a narrative that is untrue and it's
stopping a lot of people following their
purpose. It's stopping a lot of people
from even dreaming. They don't even turn
on the dream mechanism. The idea I in
their head doesn't even come alive
because they think they need money. You
don't need money to start a business. I
was 15 years old when I started a
business and I had no money and I was
homeless. It's very simple. You just
need to understand how money works. For
example, if you go to a client and you
say, "I'd like to offer you a service."
And then they say yes to that service.
You can ask them for a 50% deposit. It's
very normal in business, a 50% deposit.
And then that 50% deposit, if you do it
right, should cover all your costs. And
then when you deliver the service, and
this is what I did, when I finally
delivered what I promised, I got the
final 50% and that was my profit. So
this whole idea you need money to start
a business is it's just crazy. It's not
true. You can work for a company for 10
years. You can put your heart and soul
into that business and if you don't own
equity in that company, they can lay you
off today. That's it. All that 10 years
of work to build that company up, you
don't own it. You don't own equity in
it. You're out. And to me, that's the
risk. you waste years of your life
building something you don't own. And
and and if you work for yourself, yes,
there are cases where businesses fail.
I've had many businesses that have
failed. In fact, I would argue if my
businesses hadn't failed, I wouldn't be
successful today. But every single time
I built a business, I own equity in that
company. The time I put into that brand,
I own it. So no one can get rid of me or
more importantly, my ownership over that
equity. And this is the important thing
people need to learn within financial
literacy. If you own equity somewhere,
higher chance long-term of being
successful. If you don't own equity,
higher chance you can be cut off at any
minute with nothing in return for years
of hard work.
>> And Oliver, a final thought from you.
Look, you might find yourself in a
position like Simon to be able to start
advising people on how to do it, what
you've learned. What would you say to
someone who's maybe looking for a job
right now with a big organization in
your position as you were earlier this
year? What's your advice? I would say
find something that you know you you
find interest in or passion in and and
see how far you can take that. Um see if
you can turn that into a side thing at
least. Um and you know continue to apply
to the jobs if if that's what you feel.
that you know maybe you realize that's
something you want to take on more um is
your side thing or if you know you want
to just move into working for um another
corporation.
>> Oliver, best of luck with it. We will
follow your journey closely. Really good
to talk to you and Simon thank you for
being with us. Uh we'll let you get off
to your meeting but uh joy to talk to
you. Thank you Oliver and Simon. Thank
you.
>> Thank you so much.